Converting Berdan To Boxer 2m3327
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CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
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AuthorTopic: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER (Read 1122 times) 1 Member and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.
Joe H Senior Guild Member
Posts: 777
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« on: February 20, 2011, 12:27:10 PM »
Converting Berdan to Boxer Primers
Yeah, Yeah I know Trenches, it’s not worth the trouble but when has that ever stopped the of this Board . I have bunch military surplus berdan primed.303 British. Some 1941 Radway Green and some Early sixties POF. Hateing to throw away all that good brass I came up with the following method to convert the brass to boxer priming. I used small 7” Bench Lathes to do the work but it could be setup for a mill or drill press. It will only be efficient if you have a lot of cases to do and set up accordingly. Once the case is converted it can be reloaded normally as long as the case lasts. Since the original Berdan flash holes remain in place, as I have converted them, the converted cases will have 5 % more flash hole area than a typical boxer primed case(.082" hole). Start with caution and reduced loads to be sure the additional area is not affecting pressures. I haven’t yet reloaded any of my cases. Start by drilling the new flash hole (.066”) through the mouth of the case. Make a fixture for the drill so that it is centered and will only penetrate the anvil in the case and not the primer. You then can resize and de-cap normally The primer pocket in the .303 British Surplus is .25”. The pocket has to be bushed and reamed for the large rifle boxer primer. I cut the bushes from ¼” .032” wall brass tubing. Using Loctite 620 (green, hi temp, retaining compound), I pressed the bushes into the primer pocket. The bushes then have to be faced to match the base of the shell.
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At this point there is too much material to be removed with a primer pocket uniformer (reamer) so I remove most of the material with a 13/64” mill(UPDATE found that a number 6 drill works much better) set up with a stop fixture to limit penetration . Then the final step is the primer pocket reamer followed by a couple of twists with a hand countersink to chamfer the new pocket followed by priming as normal. Pics below show details:
Recent Posts Joe
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
2 of 5
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by moab [Today at 12:18:26 AM]
Re: product Idea .. GORY fcg box by CaptMax [Today at 12:15:51 AM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by MBGraphix
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
UPDATE I fired the first batch of converted .303. I loaded a little below max. Worked fine, cycled the action properly(Bren) . No signs of excessive pressure. As I decapped I found some of the bushes moved. Obviously the Loctite is not the best way to go. I made a crimping tool and crimped in the bushings. Hopefully that will solve the problem. Nevada Blue's soldering idea was right on.
[Today at 12:13:32 AM]
Re: Uzi stocks and topcovers 1-23-2013 by Kalikov [Today at 12:09:13 AM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by moab [Today at 12:06:13 AM]
Re: Best way to cut a slot into a Receiver? by Dix [Yesterday at 11:59:04 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by mike928 [Yesterday at 11:56:44 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by intenseimages [Yesterday at 11:54:30 PM]
Re: Question for KNife/Sword makers. by
DRILL SET UP.jpg (752.89 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 148 times.)
kragaxe [Yesterday at 11:53:51 PM]
Re: Best way to cut a slot into a Receiver? by mtdew [Yesterday at 11:52:36 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by badboy0757 [Yesterday at 11:51:31 PM]
DRILLING FIXTURE.jpg (772.76 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 83 times.)
Re: HALO Designated Marksman Rifle clone 10/22 by kragaxe [Yesterday at 11:51:17 PM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by MBGraphix
[Yesterday at 11:44:41 PM]
Re: New mill...Merry Christmas to me!!! (was:lathemaster mill experience?) by kragaxe
REAMING FIXTURES.jpg (732.83 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 63 times.)
[Yesterday at 11:44:28 PM]
Re: Pellethuntr Builds The Smokeless Mosin Muzzleloader by Moleman [Yesterday at 11:41:41 PM]
VARIOUS STEPS.jpg (816.42 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 172 times.)
Who's Online Guests: 349 Hidden: 0 s: 673 s Online: twinscrewcanoe A.C. montanagunrunner tycorcr1 moab synweap223 PMM42
FINISHED PRIMER POCKET.jpg (788.76 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 81 times.)
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
3 of 5
barnbwt AEnemaBay poor_boy_gunsmith nparmley Snowman45 parrothead CaptMax 11C ABN Gmwilly crimsonpony Underweigh katzma trailer2 nauheim dcorb johnnymg Sysop MBGraphix badboy0757 akMan01 mike928 Kalikov Ar-18 mojohona bignick73 baker11727 saelliott69 wdoyle1980 Bradrock artty62 genetic_tool sawed12 bnorth12 azmotorhead dellque baih777 wise_guy jhvol xxlt250rxx wyldchyld melike Spadinator Mosin Man akman Dix grunt71 oakspring Masterson Joewy gearshanty ackf intenseimages hakko808 firemongo bigjon69 kragaxe laor mtdew dr moe 72FJ40 brian bw skee505 shred Rock6.3 Ronaldo GunBum totenkopf Chasgee
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
FINISHING BUSH.jpg (785.83 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 82 times.) « Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 03:16:32 PM by Joe H »
Markp Band of Brothers Senior Guild Member
Report to
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Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 12:52:02 PM »
This is a great writeup for hard to find brass... Report to
Logged
Posts: 3407
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »
Joe, thanks for this. I'm gonna save my x25 brass and try it. I think one could solder up the original flash holes. Maybe deprime the hard way, solder the flash holes and then do the machine work. Now that I went back and studied your writeup, I think I'll try this:
Posts: 19159
- deprime the hard way - clean the pocket with an end mill (removing the anvil) - solder a solid chunk of brass rod in the primer pocket (filling the existing flash holes) - mill out the new hole to proper size using your mill cutter setup - drill the new flash hole using your setup, but from the primer end (saves work)
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Thanks again for this, it doesn't look so difficult, just a very tedious process. But, better than not having ammo. « Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 01:09:51 PM by NevadaBlue »
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
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Quote
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 01:20:36 PM »
Joe, I'm making this a sticky. Let's make this our Berdan to Boxer CONVERSION thread. I'll post some SAAMI standards and ideas, hopefully others will chime in too. Report to
Logged
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Lamont Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 01:30:55 PM »
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
4 of 5
dracen knights Bonno ke6guj M.A.R.S. Holescreek TapeWorm3 loveofchaos JHC Ted22 joezx10r Moleman Lotus7 ddillenger petro possumlivingdotcom meglomachinist Whitey kev_lar dallen jak1 jjrahmann HTLP GFrank morley kym Oz billphoto lazlo resting tweav wmgreer0513 RHW1225 grether squady girth safelyiniowa cantthink dennis98277 c473 elmacgyver0 powthief19 b_dillard yellow57 lazybum MGMike cajun 22 ruqikr454 ja5e68 BecauseSteel mindofmetal trukfixr dtruax blackdog gtty dblas aaronsy MrM4 croo 1reb John_Steven BW25 falcon62 wgallc akinnepa chad8324 jjsmn Rxx alsgas
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
Posts: 3325
This is a really nice thread. Just , IIRC, Berdan primers are like .002 larger in Dia than Boxer. They can loosen up over time.
And for those with RARE ammo firearms, Hornday now sells the "military classic" line of ammo and brass for all those hard to find calibers..Like 9X33, 8X54R, .303, 7.65 Argie ma....and even some of the old swiss verlitti ammo Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Logged
Quote
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 01:57:45 PM »
Lamont, Joe is making a NEW primer pocket. It is sized to standard primer size. I found this reference quote on another site, and am struggling to confirm it on the SAAMI site. From SAAMI, the depths for small pistol, small rifle, and large pistol primer pockets are .118" to .122", while large rifle primer pocket depths are .128" to .132". Small pistol and small rifle primers have the same diameter (.175") while large rifle and large pistol primers are also the same (.210"). It is recommended that primers be seated .003" to .005" below flush.
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
MGMike Senior Guild Member
Logged
Quote
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »
NB.....
Posts: 3114 Black Hills, SD
I like the idea of plugging the base, and starting from there. It would be a no-brainer with a tailstock turret in the new lathe A shouldered collet to hold the brass would help. MgM Report to
Logged
An armed society is a polite society.
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 04:21:32 PM »
yep, a turret would be the berries for this. Now I need to look at my collets and collet block, good idea! I bet I could set up the collet holder in the mill and just step through the process. Thanks!
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
5 of 5
Hllrsr awptickes nemoaztracker mrkermit Lodi pellethuntr desert fox HydroPrintServices
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
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Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
trenches Band of Brothers Senior Guild Member
Quote
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 05:09:02 PM »
Now how did you know I would feel that way Joe. But hey, whatever trips your trigger. Fortunately I still have some RWS Berdan primers stashed away so I don't have to resort to drastic measures. Yet. Excellent write up though. Where I could see doing this is with some RARE cartridge that is virtually almost impossible to obtain. What I don't understand is why some enterprising outfit doesn't import Berdan primers.
Posts: 6006
Report to
Logged
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
MGMike Senior Guild Member
Quote
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 06:26:39 PM »
Quote from: trenches on February 20, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
What I don't understand is why some enterprising outfit doesn't import Berdan primers.
Posts: 3114
Trenchy....
Black Hills, SD
Dixie Gun Works used to.....'cept that wuz about 40 years ago MgM Report to
Logged
An armed society is a polite society.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7
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1 of 5
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
Hey, twinscrewcanoe, you have 1 message, 0 are new. Show unread posts since last visit. Show new replies to your posts.
485831 Posts in 32776 Topics by 17657 - Latest Member: nemoaztracker
January 25, 2013, 12:18:37 AM
HOME | HELP | SEARCH | PROFILE | MY MESSAGES | | | NEW POSTS |
Weapons Guild | The Tool Box | Ammo and Reloading | Topic: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Band of Brothers
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7
REPLY
NOTIFY
MARK UNREAD
SEND THIS TOPIC
AuthorTopic: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER (Read 1122 times) 1 Member and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.
Joe H Senior Guild Member
Posts: 777
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« on: February 20, 2011, 12:27:10 PM »
Converting Berdan to Boxer Primers
Yeah, Yeah I know Trenches, it’s not worth the trouble but when has that ever stopped the of this Board . I have bunch military surplus berdan primed.303 British. Some 1941 Radway Green and some Early sixties POF. Hateing to throw away all that good brass I came up with the following method to convert the brass to boxer priming. I used small 7” Bench Lathes to do the work but it could be setup for a mill or drill press. It will only be efficient if you have a lot of cases to do and set up accordingly. Once the case is converted it can be reloaded normally as long as the case lasts. Since the original Berdan flash holes remain in place, as I have converted them, the converted cases will have 5 % more flash hole area than a typical boxer primed case(.082" hole). Start with caution and reduced loads to be sure the additional area is not affecting pressures. I haven’t yet reloaded any of my cases. Start by drilling the new flash hole (.066”) through the mouth of the case. Make a fixture for the drill so that it is centered and will only penetrate the anvil in the case and not the primer. You then can resize and de-cap normally The primer pocket in the .303 British Surplus is .25”. The pocket has to be bushed and reamed for the large rifle boxer primer. I cut the bushes from ¼” .032” wall brass tubing. Using Loctite 620 (green, hi temp, retaining compound), I pressed the bushes into the primer pocket. The bushes then have to be faced to match the base of the shell.
Search
Search
WG ShoutBox
At this point there is too much material to be removed with a primer pocket uniformer (reamer) so I remove most of the material with a 13/64” mill(UPDATE found that a number 6 drill works much better) set up with a stop fixture to limit penetration . Then the final step is the primer pocket reamer followed by a couple of twists with a hand countersink to chamfer the new pocket followed by priming as normal. Pics below show details:
Recent Posts Joe
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
2 of 5
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by moab [Today at 12:18:26 AM]
Re: product Idea .. GORY fcg box by CaptMax [Today at 12:15:51 AM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by MBGraphix
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
UPDATE I fired the first batch of converted .303. I loaded a little below max. Worked fine, cycled the action properly(Bren) . No signs of excessive pressure. As I decapped I found some of the bushes moved. Obviously the Loctite is not the best way to go. I made a crimping tool and crimped in the bushings. Hopefully that will solve the problem. Nevada Blue's soldering idea was right on.
[Today at 12:13:32 AM]
Re: Uzi stocks and topcovers 1-23-2013 by Kalikov [Today at 12:09:13 AM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by moab [Today at 12:06:13 AM]
Re: Best way to cut a slot into a Receiver? by Dix [Yesterday at 11:59:04 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by mike928 [Yesterday at 11:56:44 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by intenseimages [Yesterday at 11:54:30 PM]
Re: Question for KNife/Sword makers. by
DRILL SET UP.jpg (752.89 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 148 times.)
kragaxe [Yesterday at 11:53:51 PM]
Re: Best way to cut a slot into a Receiver? by mtdew [Yesterday at 11:52:36 PM]
Re: Marlin 60 reciever dimensions needed by badboy0757 [Yesterday at 11:51:31 PM]
DRILLING FIXTURE.jpg (772.76 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 83 times.)
Re: HALO Designated Marksman Rifle clone 10/22 by kragaxe [Yesterday at 11:51:17 PM]
Re: WTB: AK47 Bullet Guide by MBGraphix
[Yesterday at 11:44:41 PM]
Re: New mill...Merry Christmas to me!!! (was:lathemaster mill experience?) by kragaxe
REAMING FIXTURES.jpg (732.83 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 63 times.)
[Yesterday at 11:44:28 PM]
Re: Pellethuntr Builds The Smokeless Mosin Muzzleloader by Moleman [Yesterday at 11:41:41 PM]
VARIOUS STEPS.jpg (816.42 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 172 times.)
Who's Online Guests: 349 Hidden: 0 s: 673 s Online: twinscrewcanoe A.C. montanagunrunner tycorcr1 moab synweap223 PMM42
FINISHED PRIMER POCKET.jpg (788.76 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 81 times.)
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
3 of 5
barnbwt AEnemaBay poor_boy_gunsmith nparmley Snowman45 parrothead CaptMax 11C ABN Gmwilly crimsonpony Underweigh katzma trailer2 nauheim dcorb johnnymg Sysop MBGraphix badboy0757 akMan01 mike928 Kalikov Ar-18 mojohona bignick73 baker11727 saelliott69 wdoyle1980 Bradrock artty62 genetic_tool sawed12 bnorth12 azmotorhead dellque baih777 wise_guy jhvol xxlt250rxx wyldchyld melike Spadinator Mosin Man akman Dix grunt71 oakspring Masterson Joewy gearshanty ackf intenseimages hakko808 firemongo bigjon69 kragaxe laor mtdew dr moe 72FJ40 brian bw skee505 shred Rock6.3 Ronaldo GunBum totenkopf Chasgee
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
FINISHING BUSH.jpg (785.83 kB, 1600x1200 - viewed 82 times.) « Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 03:16:32 PM by Joe H »
Markp Band of Brothers Senior Guild Member
Report to
Logged
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 12:52:02 PM »
This is a great writeup for hard to find brass... Report to
Logged
Posts: 3407
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »
Joe, thanks for this. I'm gonna save my x25 brass and try it. I think one could solder up the original flash holes. Maybe deprime the hard way, solder the flash holes and then do the machine work. Now that I went back and studied your writeup, I think I'll try this:
Posts: 19159
- deprime the hard way - clean the pocket with an end mill (removing the anvil) - solder a solid chunk of brass rod in the primer pocket (filling the existing flash holes) - mill out the new hole to proper size using your mill cutter setup - drill the new flash hole using your setup, but from the primer end (saves work)
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Thanks again for this, it doesn't look so difficult, just a very tedious process. But, better than not having ammo. « Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 01:09:51 PM by NevadaBlue »
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Logged
Quote
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 01:20:36 PM »
Joe, I'm making this a sticky. Let's make this our Berdan to Boxer CONVERSION thread. I'll post some SAAMI standards and ideas, hopefully others will chime in too. Report to
Logged
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Lamont Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 01:30:55 PM »
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
4 of 5
dracen knights Bonno ke6guj M.A.R.S. Holescreek TapeWorm3 loveofchaos JHC Ted22 joezx10r Moleman Lotus7 ddillenger petro possumlivingdotcom meglomachinist Whitey kev_lar dallen jak1 jjrahmann HTLP GFrank morley kym Oz billphoto lazlo resting tweav wmgreer0513 RHW1225 grether squady girth safelyiniowa cantthink dennis98277 c473 elmacgyver0 powthief19 b_dillard yellow57 lazybum MGMike cajun 22 ruqikr454 ja5e68 BecauseSteel mindofmetal trukfixr dtruax blackdog gtty dblas aaronsy MrM4 croo 1reb John_Steven BW25 falcon62 wgallc akinnepa chad8324 jjsmn Rxx alsgas
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
Posts: 3325
This is a really nice thread. Just , IIRC, Berdan primers are like .002 larger in Dia than Boxer. They can loosen up over time.
And for those with RARE ammo firearms, Hornday now sells the "military classic" line of ammo and brass for all those hard to find calibers..Like 9X33, 8X54R, .303, 7.65 Argie ma....and even some of the old swiss verlitti ammo Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Logged
Quote
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 01:57:45 PM »
Lamont, Joe is making a NEW primer pocket. It is sized to standard primer size. I found this reference quote on another site, and am struggling to confirm it on the SAAMI site. From SAAMI, the depths for small pistol, small rifle, and large pistol primer pockets are .118" to .122", while large rifle primer pocket depths are .128" to .132". Small pistol and small rifle primers have the same diameter (.175") while large rifle and large pistol primers are also the same (.210"). It is recommended that primers be seated .003" to .005" below flush.
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam Report to
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
MGMike Senior Guild Member
Logged
Quote
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »
NB.....
Posts: 3114 Black Hills, SD
I like the idea of plugging the base, and starting from there. It would be a no-brainer with a tailstock turret in the new lathe A shouldered collet to hold the brass would help. MgM Report to
Logged
An armed society is a polite society.
NevadaBlue Under the Blue Nevada Sky ______________________ Global Senior Guild Member
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
Quote
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 04:21:32 PM »
yep, a turret would be the berries for this. Now I need to look at my collets and collet block, good idea! I bet I could set up the collet holder in the mill and just step through the process. Thanks!
Posts: 19159 Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
5 of 5
Hllrsr awptickes nemoaztracker mrkermit Lodi pellethuntr desert fox HydroPrintServices
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=18094.0
Report to
Logged
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
trenches Band of Brothers Senior Guild Member
Quote
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 05:09:02 PM »
Now how did you know I would feel that way Joe. But hey, whatever trips your trigger. Fortunately I still have some RWS Berdan primers stashed away so I don't have to resort to drastic measures. Yet. Excellent write up though. Where I could see doing this is with some RARE cartridge that is virtually almost impossible to obtain. What I don't understand is why some enterprising outfit doesn't import Berdan primers.
Posts: 6006
Report to
Logged
Re: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER
MGMike Senior Guild Member
Quote
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 06:26:39 PM »
Quote from: trenches on February 20, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
What I don't understand is why some enterprising outfit doesn't import Berdan primers.
Posts: 3114
Trenchy....
Black Hills, SD
Dixie Gun Works used to.....'cept that wuz about 40 years ago MgM Report to
Logged
An armed society is a polite society.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7
REPLY
NOTIFY
MARK UNREAD
SEND THIS TOPIC
Weapons Guild | The Tool Box | Ammo and Reloading | Topic: CONVERTING BERDAN to BOXER Jump to: => Ammo and Reloading
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Page created in 0.212 seconds with 30 queries. Helios Multi © Bloc
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal
1/24/2013 11:20 PM
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